[quote]
neither is seki btw since seki like living with half a group is "clear"(doesn't require counting like endgame probs) points give-away...[/quote]
I disagree that seki wouldn't be a solution to "count the ways". Adum also seems to disagree with you on this point, as is seen in a recent problem by him: www.goproblems.com/prob.php3?id=5304
Try the variation: Wh1 Bk4 (black's strongest reply unless sente is important, since the other one lets white get two eyes) Wl1 Bj1 (throw-in) Wk1 Bk3 (seki though gote for black)
{Posted by Emile Wester}
***TsumegoConventions***
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admin
my take
definitely there needs to be some clarity here.
at some level, i think the decision is arbitrary: you can't say "the only way to define a how-many-ways problem is such and such."
i take my personal definition from mingjiu jiang 7p, who first introduced me to this type of problem. the way he does it is by counting ways to live unconditionally. so ko's don't count, seki's do, and giving away parts do too. so i think we should arbitrarily make this the standard.
in 5652, giving away two stones is marked wrong. that's fine, but i think we just need to add some text to make it clear. "How many ways to live? You must save all your stones to count."
adum
{Posted by admin}
at some level, i think the decision is arbitrary: you can't say "the only way to define a how-many-ways problem is such and such."
i take my personal definition from mingjiu jiang 7p, who first introduced me to this type of problem. the way he does it is by counting ways to live unconditionally. so ko's don't count, seki's do, and giving away parts do too. so i think we should arbitrarily make this the standard.
in 5652, giving away two stones is marked wrong. that's fine, but i think we just need to add some text to make it clear. "How many ways to live? You must save all your stones to count."
adum
{Posted by admin}
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Emile Wester
Thanks for posting, adum. The definition mingjiu gives is okay by me.
I wasn't sure about ko's being an answer (though it's still useful to also look at ko's as possibilities), but seki and partial life shouldn't be marked wrong without an explanation I think.
Ko's are among the most neglected aspects of go by 5th kyu and lower players at my club (and I think everywhere else) and often feared, I've noticed.
{Posted by Emile Wester}
I wasn't sure about ko's being an answer (though it's still useful to also look at ko's as possibilities), but seki and partial life shouldn't be marked wrong without an explanation I think.
Ko's are among the most neglected aspects of go by 5th kyu and lower players at my club (and I think everywhere else) and often feared, I've noticed.
{Posted by Emile Wester}
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Emile Wester
About Santa C's sudden addition to an existing page on sensei's library and after that referring to it as 'the' definition for L&D problems as if it was already part of that page and scrutinized by everyone at sensei's (instead of a question or open-minded opinion), I have to say that I'm a bit astonished that someone would use that as leverage in a discussion.
I was surprised at first when I read that page on sensei's and almost thought that I'm alone in my opinion and should probably give in to what sensei's states, only to find that only moments before I read it, the page was modified by Santa C (aka Reuven on sensei's).
Did you add that stuff on sensei's on purpose just to fool me and Bildstein, Santa C? Or did you only forget to place your name next to it?
In the future, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't do stuff like this in perfectly well-grounded discussions.
{Posted by Emile Wester}
I was surprised at first when I read that page on sensei's and almost thought that I'm alone in my opinion and should probably give in to what sensei's states, only to find that only moments before I read it, the page was modified by Santa C (aka Reuven on sensei's).
Did you add that stuff on sensei's on purpose just to fool me and Bildstein, Santa C? Or did you only forget to place your name next to it?
In the future, I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't do stuff like this in perfectly well-grounded discussions.
{Posted by Emile Wester}
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santa c
adum, k, i'll add it. (although i still think that seki isn't as good and...)
no i didn't do it to fool anyone i wanted a comnfirmation - "Applies to the whole group? please correct
" was the editing comment... and since the editor is always there and my name says it's me... but thanks for moving it to a discussion page... 
(trust me i don't add problems and such to fool ppl... i'm not that lifeless...)
{Posted by santa c}
no i didn't do it to fool anyone i wanted a comnfirmation - "Applies to the whole group? please correct
" was the editing comment... and since the editor is always there and my name says it's me... but thanks for moving it to a discussion page... (trust me i don't add problems and such to fool ppl... i'm not that lifeless...)
{Posted by santa c}